S4E4-Dragons-n-Art-Blake-n-Raven Penn === Don Bishop: Welcome to the Grendhill Chronicles podcast. My name is Don Bishop, and I write as T. S. Pedraman. Today's episode brings you an interview with authors Blake and Raven Penn, who are married co authors of the Skystone Chronicles. Who are married co authors of the Skystone Chronicles. First up, though, is our weekly book giveaway. So, um, Last week's giveaway winner is the user Tillysworld in my discord server. And Tillysworld, you won the giveaway, so you get to choose from the menu. Everybody else, you can look at the menu and see how to win. There's a link in the show notes or the video description or whatever you want to call it. Now, um, To enter to win, you answer a question of the week, you guess a number, and you guess a letter for a two book power up. And, the next winner, uh, so, I'm gonna find out who won this, um, well, I'm gonna check right before I publish the new question of the week when this podcast episode goes out. But. The, uh, you can see last week's number was 172, and the letter of the alphabet was O. And, uh, this is how it goes, you know, you answer the question of the week for participation, you guess a number, the closest number wins. If your letter is within, is the letter that I wrote down or right before or right after it, then you get two books instead of just one. And, uh, sorry, I have to remind myself, I'm not great with, uh, spitting out lists mentally. So I have to look at my notes, um, to make sure that I remember everything. So Um, I've told you how to win, and, oh, yeah, we need, I need to write down the new number and letter, and I, I'm not trying to rig this at all, I promise, um, I don't even make up the numbers, so I'm going to look up, uh, random number generator, and I'm going to, the minimum is one, the maximum is 1, 000, and I'm going to hit generate. And that is the number that I have for this next contest. And then, random letter comes from randomwordgenerator. com And I want one letter from the English alphabet. Here comes one random letter. And that is the letter. Um, so, I'll be right back with the question of the week for this week. Actually, no. I had changed my mind. Sorry, I'm looking at my notes again. Yeah, the new question of the week is just for fun. Last week's question was, uh, you know, what do you look for in an online community such as a Discord server? And, to be honest, I was looking for, you know, how can I make you guys happier? And, uh Make sure that everybody enjoys and engages in the Discord server. And I got, I've gotten some good answers. And I, I'm gonna look at the best way to implement those. I don't want to like, blow up the number of channels that I have in my Discord server. Uh, so I might, um, combine or split out as the case may be. But yeah, I'm gonna definitely do that. And Again, I'm reminding myself to look at my notes. Okay, so the new question of the week. And you can win a book, a free print book. You can get one of mine. If you're watching the video, you can see that these are hardcovers. But the contest is for paperbacks, unless you're one of my supporters. If you're one of my supporters, then when you win, you can upgrade to a hardcover, no cost. I suppose if you, uh, if you're not one of the supporters, I'm gonna have to, don't, I'm not promising this right now, but I think, um, it would make sense if I can let you upgrade just for the cost difference. Um, not all titles are available for the upgrade from paperback to hardcover because not all titles exist. And that just depends on what the author has made available. But, yeah, so there's my two books. There's, um, this one, Hidden Destiny. This one, uh, Thumos Rising. Uh, there's another one that I have that I, that came from another author. Um, When I went to MarsCon last weekend, and I haven't unpacked it, so it's not here on video. But, you can see the menu on grendhill. media slash prizes, and the winner gets to choose. You just take your pick from those books. Um, anyway, so I'm talking a lot, sorry. So you can win one of those books, and all you have to do is answer the question of the week, and guess a number in my Discord server. And, that's it. The new question of the week, and you have until my next episode comes out, and I post the new question of the week in the discord. The new question of the week for January 24th until next week is If you could, this one's just for fun, you know, last week again, I was trying to learn something to make sure I have an engaging server because I want people to be having a good time. But this one's just for fun, like Talk about it, joke about it, whatever you want. But, if you could have dinner with one fantasy character, who would it be and why? That's the question of the week. And, uh, if you're only here for winning books, then we'll see you next week. But, uh, moving on. So, other announcements. Um, yes, I went to MarsCon last weekend. It was fun. I connected with some other authors. I connected with some fans. Um, yeah, I, I met a good group of authors. I'm, I'm really glad that I went and, um, and met them and, and you know, now we're communicating online and, and we'll see if we, uh, collaborate in the future. We'll see. Uh, nothing to announce at this point though, you know, we just met each other. Um, upcoming. cons or conventions. In February, I will be at FenCon in Dallas for Valentine's Day weekend. And the following weekend, Friday and Saturday, I will be at StoryCon in Salt Lake City. And then I will be at one more con in February. And I will announce which con that is next week. Right here on the podcast. Um, if you're dying to know right now. Then you need to be one of my supporters, which you can do at ko fi. com. There will be a link in the, in the show notes. Uh, or if you search for Grendhill, you'll find me. But, um, those backers or subscribers, whatever the word you want to use is, uh, automatically gain access to the hidden channel in my Discord server where I have posted. I keep that, like, really up to date. In fact, I'm going to another con in June that I've already paid for. It's set. And they already know where I'm going to be and what dates. So, um, Yeah, there is some advantage to being a supporter. And, sorry, I'm looking at my notes. Make sure I don't forget. My Kickstarter project. I, I've said before, the last thing I have going is the song that I promised for it, and I have done a little bit of work on it. I've had some things come up that have slowed me down, and I thought I was going to be able to really dive into it. But I did have something else come up. Uh, which causes a delay of two weeks, and unfortunately, like, looking at the calendar, Looking beyond those two weeks, that's when I'm gonna start traveling to go to some cons in February. Which means that, um, I, I wouldn't count on, I wouldn't expect to have any finished product for this song earlier than mid March. Um, if I wanna be realistic. Mid March or later. I'm gonna try to work a bit on it a bit while I'm on the road I don't know if I'm gonna get any opportunity though. Um, I I don't think I'm gonna have any kind of Piano keyboard to to work with I have one but it's not exactly portable and not the one behind me This one definitely isn't portable not like that Because it has the the legs, but I have I have another one but it's not really portable and I mean I'll be traveling I'll be on the road and I, I'll have other things to pay attention to. Um, I'll bring my iwi on the road. The, I don't have it on the wall neck behind me right now, but my, my iwi is my electronic wind instrument. Um, you can learn more about that if you want. It's, it's really an interesting thing. It's, it's cool. Um, but it's, it's hard to, to work on com, um, compositional stuff on the road. Uh, at least for me it is. I'm sure some people whip it out just fine. Um, like, who was it? Like, um, There's a story about Handel, or, you know, a lot of people pronounce it Handel, but it's, he was German, so it would be Handel. Uh, Georg Friedrich Handel, um, composed his, uh, Messiah in some Breakneck speed. Anyway. So, yeah. The song, probably not any earlier than mid March to have any kind of finished product. Now, uh, the interview today, as I said, is with Blake and Raven Penn, and, uh, my first question of the week for my weekly book giveaway was about them. Uh, I, I asked In my discord server what, um, I'm gonna have these artists, uh, these, um, Artists isn't an incorrect word, but these authors on the podcast, um, what would you like to ask them? And so I got some questions and so on the, I, I got on the, um, on the call with them and, and recorded. And I forgot to ask them the questions. I felt so dumb when I, when I realized that I'd forgotten to ask them these questions that I got from the Discord. So, I emailed them and got them back on the call. Um, and I asked them these questions and we had another great discussion. Uh, it was longer than I anticipated, so I'm breaking that out into its own episode. So, those of you who posed these questions in the Discord server, and I asked them these questions, that will be next week. That's going to be next week's episode of the podcast. Uh, this week, it's a, I think it was a really fun interview. Um, they're a high energy couple. And, I, you'll get to see me discover that we went to the same college. Uh, so that was fun. And, um Yeah, I already gave you the question of the week. So go answer that in the Discord server. Guess the number between 1 and 1, 000 in order to win a book next week. And throw in a letter of the alphabet to try to power it up to two books instead of one. And for now, enjoy the interview, and I'll see you next time on this podcast. All right. Here I am with authors, Blake and Raven Penn, who write the Skystone Chronicles. Um, so Blake and Raven, why don't you tell us, like, let, uh, listeners get to know you and tell us about your author journey, how you came to. Start writing and Blake: yeah, Raven: okay. Let's do it. Blake: So I'm Blake. Raven: Yep. I'm Raven Blake: and We have been writing together for almost Raven: well, this is that's kind of how we met So we've been married for eight years now, and we actually met in college studying screenwriting So that's kind of where our background and training is is in screenwriting. Intro Music: Mm hmm Raven: But our dreams were a little more expensive than most indie filmmakers wanted to handle. So, Blake: and we were technically doing a lot of playwriting sort of stuff. And, um, actually our first date, uh, I took Raven to a play that I had written Without telling her, Raven: he didn't tell me he'd written it. He just took me to the play because he wanted to see if I genuinely liked the writing. He like didn't even care. Intro Music: It Raven: was actually like a series of like 10 mini plays. And like at the very end, he's like, so which one was your favorite? And I'm like, obviously this one. And he's like, Oh, good. I'm going to go up on stage and do a little talk back session as the writer of the one you liked best. Don Bishop: It was less date and more interview. Raven: Yes, exactly. But I didn't know. She passed the test. She passed the Don Bishop: test. Blake: Oh wow. I Raven: was perfectly relaxed, though, because I had no idea. Blake: It was a lot of fun. And it was cool because, um, it was awesome to see her view on things because even though she like, liked my writing best, she had notes on it that I was like, Oh, that would make it better. That would be really good too, you know, and it started kind of the spark of what ended up. Making us a writing team, which was recognizing that she was good. And all of the things I was bad at. Right? And vice versa. Yeah. Raven: So he really excels in the world building, and the logistics, and making sure distances make sense, and then the plot comes together in a very, like, mental sort of way. Blake: And action scenes. Raven: Action scenes, yes. He knows exactly what he wants to see from all the cool action scenes. Whereas I'm better at Kind of the, the little, the minutiae with the characters, making sure their arcs flow really, really well, and making sure that the flow of the story itself is really, really easy to read. Don Bishop: Okay. Raven: So, it's been a good balance. Don Bishop: Okay. Um, just talking about like keeping the characters straight and whatnot made me think of, so, um, I think I'll be publishing this episode next week, uh, and whereas this Thursday's will be another one that I recorded just this morning. I talked to the guy who makes Plotter. Are you aware of Plotter? Blake and Raven making funny voices: I've heard of it. Don Bishop: Oh, I've, Blake: I think I've seen ads for it or something. Yeah. Or I've heard people talk about it either way. Yeah. Well, um, Plotter without an E, right? P L O T T R. Plotter, Blake and Raven making funny voices: yes. Don Bishop: Harry Potter! Raven: Oh Don Bishop: man. I don't know if that was good or if that was bad. It was funny. Raven: Control yourself. Don Bishop: Um, yeah, so like keeping characters straight. So I guess some people use software tools. Whereas Blake, you use Raven, she does the, Raven: that's right. Although that's the other thing is we kind of sometimes drive each other a little bit crazy in the different ways that we like to organize outlines. So we've had to kind of come together on that. Give a little. Don Bishop: Okay. And, um, so you were both studying screenwriting. Raven: Yeah. Don Bishop: Okay. Cool. Yeah. Raven: Screenwriting, playwriting. Don Bishop: Yeah. Raven: Also acting, but that's on the side. Don Bishop: Yeah. So, and you said like you, you were tending to. Write things that would be expensive to produce. Is that what you meant? Yeah, dragons are hard to put Blake: on screen. Raven: Exactly, but when you write a novel, you can have a dragon crash through the castle and it doesn't cost anyone a cent. Blake: Yeah, so I did a lot of sketch comedy, um, and in that I learned to write in a way that we could portray on stage, right? Where we would have to be very limited in our scope of like, okay, we can't have someone burst through a wall like the Kool Aid man, because we don't have a wall to break through, right? Or a Kool Aid man. We could maybe cheat that in a couple ways, but you know what? It's going to be a whole lot easier if I make the entrance something A little less explosive, Raven: but with novels, it's limitless because everything's taking place in in the reader's brain. So you can do whatever you want. Don Bishop: Yeah, I had another question. Blake: Where did, where were you going to school? So we met at Brigham Young University. Okay, Raven (funny voice): I've Blake: heard of that Don Bishop: school. Raven (funny voice): Uh, Don Bishop: I think I visited once. I was gonna Raven: say, I spy a temple back there on the wall. Don Bishop: Yeah. Um, yeah. Blake: Is that one the San Diego temple? Don Bishop: Yeah. Only the coolest temple. Nice. The Marine Corps took me to San Diego for several years. Raven (funny voice): Oh, wow. Nice. Oh, Blake: that's awesome, dude. Raven (funny voice): That is. Don Bishop: Yeah. So, um. That's way cool. Yeah. I was, I was at BYU. For, for listeners not watching on YouTube, I held up my, BYU marching band blanket with my name embroidered on it. Oh yeah! Blake and Raven making funny voices: Marching band! Nice! That's Don Bishop: awesome dude! So you were in the HVAC? Oh yeah! I lived in the HVAC. I was a music major. We were in the same building. Raven: That's where we met! That old HVAC that they took down! Yeah, I was Don Bishop: so sad that they When I learned that they were going to tear it down and then my old clarinet professor kept posting pictures of, you know, here's this memory and this is going to go away. And he'd share the pictures on Facebook. And that was, it was good to at least see that. Raven (funny voice): Like a slow funeral. Don Bishop: Yeah. Yeah. Blake and Raven making funny voices: Oh man. That's cool. That's awesome. Don Bishop: So, um, Let me guess the, uh, the, the series of 10 plays, whatever that the first date was that in the, oh, I'm trying to remember the name of that auditorium. It's Raven: underneath the Don Bishop: Madsen. Um, I don't remember. I, I don't remember the name of the auditorium. Blake: Starts with an N? Don Bishop: No, I, I, I didn't. It rhymes with selkie. Oh Raven: my gosh. Don Bishop: There we go. Raven: That's where we met. That's where we had our first date. Don Bishop: Well, awesome. Yeah. I had, I had a few dates upstairs from that in the, the Madsen recital hall. I had several dates across the, the atrium from that at the de Jong concert hall. Raven: Oh yeah. Oh, all these memories, man. I haven't heard these words in so long. Don Bishop: That's awesome. There's the practice room hallway. Oh, so you know, you were all over on your side of the building. I was over on my side of the building. So maybe you never saw this, but there was, um, there was a time when, uh, some that they posted signs in the hallway on the second floor, uh, anybody out there? This is below ground. Uh, third floor is ground level, um, so that the practice room hallway was on the second floor, and, uh, it was a huge L shaped hallway, and one of those hallways was parallel to the atrium, it ran north south, and one time, these signs appeared in this hallway, saying not to use these, certain practice rooms during performances going on in the Dion concert hall. That's because I noticed one day and I commented to my professor and I guess word passed on, uh, but I was in the Dion concert hall enjoying, I don't know, Paragant or something. But, um, I could hear a piano beneath me. I could hear somebody practicing one of the grand pianos in the Anyway. Raven: That's probably part of why they wanted to redo stuff. But man, it was a cool building! Yeah, Don Bishop: it was crumbling. It was Blake: Yeah, very easy to get lost into, Blake and Raven making funny voices: especially on the Blake: first floor in the deep basement. Yeah, Raven: yeah, that's cool. Don Bishop: All right, so fantasy from the HVAC. Raven: Oh, yeah, that's right. Don Bishop: Wow. Okay, and where are you living now? Are you in Utah still? Are you elsewhere? Raven: Yep. Utah County. Yeah. Don Bishop: Okay. I'm gonna, yeah. And you, I'm going to be in Utah next month for StoryCon. Raven: Oh yeah. We're going to be at StoryCon. Don Bishop: I think we're two tables away. No way. We Raven: found you in there. Yeah. Don Bishop: Yeah. Yeah. Raven: They mislabeled our name on the map that they sent everyone, but we're in there. I, Don Bishop: I haven't looked at the map yet. Raven: Nice. Well, we're neighbors. We're gonna see each other. Cool. Don Bishop: Wow. Yeah. Raven: Yeah. Don Bishop: Yeah. All right. So walking down memory lane. Intro Music: Yeah. Don Bishop: So we were going to talk about dragon books and illustrations. Um, I do want to hear about illustrations. So you write the Skystone Chronicles. Uh, can you tell me the premise of, of that series? Raven: For sure. Absolutely. Okay. So if you take a Venn diagram. With Eragon, Mistborn, and Avatar the Last Airbender, our vibe hits right in the middle of that. So we're aiming toward upper YA. Um, it's a action adventure, heists, dragons, all the best things. The stuff we would have wanted to read as teenagers, like, that would have kept us up all night reading, that's where we wanted to go. So. Blake: It's got a really, really intricate magic system that we think is super fun, that ties into the world, and. There's just all sorts of dragons. Intro Music: Oh yeah. Blake: Like possibly the most dragons per capita of any book you'll ever read. Dragons per capita. Exactly. Everything's Raven: a dragon. So we even have a page in the back where we illustrated, oh yeah. Like of guardian creatures and they're all draconic. You know, every animal is a dragon. So we've got raccoons, we've got Blake: drac, opees, drac, Raven: elopes, opees, dragon, moose, everything is draconic. So. We just kind of went overboard on the dragons, just because it was fun and it's awesome and it just adds to this vibe. So Blake: And, uh, there's a group of half dragon people called Drakai. Okay. Because we'd always liked, like, the kind of half dragon idea. Not like a D& D Dragonborn, where it's like a dragon that's kind of in a humanoid But more of a, Raven: but more like if elves had a draconic twist, right? So they've got pointed ears, but they're scaly. They've got dragon horns and they've got like scales lining their hairlines, their cheekbones, just draconic type people. Don Bishop: Makes me think a little bit like a Blake: tiefling, but Raven: a little bit tiefling esque. Yeah. Blake: Closer to a tiefling than a dragonborn. Just with all of the features being a draconic, draconic Raven: based. Yeah. Blake: Yeah. Raven: So our main character in our first book, Dragon Thief is a half born. So he's. Uh, his mom was one of the dragon people, his father was one of the Evgardians who live on the, the mainland, the regular humans. And so, yeah, he is hilarious. He's on an adventure to steal a true dragon egg, but Asher's only in it for revenge. It's, it's a fun time. Don Bishop: Okay, and then, so You showed me some of those illustrations in the book. Uh, tell me more about your illustrations. Raven: So, illustrations! I was a children's book illustrator. Um, to kind of pay our way when we were first having kids and stuff a little bit. Yeah, Blake: we were needing to get a new computer for Raven. And I was like, you're a pretty dang good artist. I think we're just gonna get you an iPad and let's see what you can do. And she was like, I don't know, would that really be worth it? It's so much money, Blake and Raven making funny voices: don't do it! Bye. And so Blake: we got her an iPad. And she started doing like ink tober stuff and immediately started getting contracts, getting Raven: contracts for children's books Oh. And stuff. Oh, wow. And so that was kind of a steady source of income for a while. And while it was super, super fun, my heart lies with writing. So I tried to, uh, transfer my skills into design and into illustration for kind of why, uh, epic fantasy novel. So I designed the covers for our book series, and then I designed the images in our, we're calling it The Guide to Egar in the back of the book. So we've got little guide to the magic system back here with pictures and stuff. Uh, we've got that guide to of guard. I made the maps for our world. Do you, what do you Blake: use for formatting? Raven: Uh, Blake: uh, for the book itself, Uhhuh, , Atticus, um, and then she does all of the, and then I do all Raven: the illustration in the procreate app for iPad. So, yeah, work. So how did, how did you format Don Bishop: the, uh, what, that page that you just showed me where you have some text and image and image and text. Raven: Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Don Bishop: She made a font. I designed Raven: a font. Oh, wow. Yep, uploaded it into Procreate, the app on iPad, and then typed it all out, made it all fit and stuff. Actually, the very first copies of Dragon Guard that we, uh, sent out, I hand wrote everything, and then it was all too small, and so when we scrapped that and got the real copies, I, uh, I had to go back and redesign a font so that I could adjust it for the hardcover versus the paperback versus the ebook and all the different things. So there are a few people out there who have the original, original versions. They've got teeny tiny, teeny tiny words in there. Blake: Handwritten by Raven. That's right. Yeah. Raven: Collector's edition. Blake: Yeah. Yeah. Don Bishop: Yeah. And that's, you know, you're making me think of, um, I have some typos in my book and I, in my first book, I know that like the first edition. Hmm. Uh, the first several that got printed, I, I know that there's some typos out there. And in fact, there, there are typos that I know of right now that I have not yet corrected. Uh, my main character's name is Alava. There is a point where it says Alavaba. Just a little hint Raven: of Elphaba from Wicked in there. It's trending right now. Don Bishop: And then, uh, Raven: Nice. Don Bishop: Yeah. So, and you've got your little tiny handwriting. Raven: That's right. That's right. You learn things when you self publish. You learn stuff. It's true. Don Bishop: Yeah. Doing Blake: everything. Don Bishop: So like, when I, um, um, I have some, some poetry in here. It's not like I, I wax poetic, you know? It's just, there's, there's like this ceremony type thing. And. The, the invocation is, is kind of a poem and, um, so when I went and did the formatting for that, I used Atticus, um, but, oh, come on. Where is that? Where's that first page? Um, there it is. Uh, and so it, it, you can see where it, it starts the, the poetry on the, the following page. And it leaves this blank area on the on the left page and it really shouldn't be Um, Blake and Raven making funny voices: yeah, Don Bishop: but that's because that's because to get the the poetry, right? It's an image. I I got the poetry right in microsoft word Did a screen grab and then copied that over so that that text isn't, uh, and I, I did that again later in the book, except it was multiple stanzas. And so each stanza was an image that was really annoying to deal with because there were like seven of them. Um, Intro Music: Oh boy. Blake: Yeah. And was this with Atticus a few years ago? Last year, uh, January of last year, Don Bishop: see, and here, here, the, it's the wrong size. It's too, like, you can see the, the font above Intro Music: and then the font of Don Bishop: the song, and then the song is definitely a larger font size. Not supposed to be that way. Intro Music: No. Raven: Formatting is rough. Don Bishop: Yeah. That's Raven: what, like, does the formatting and I appreciate it. He goes through and it checks every single page before we send it off. It's tedious, but I'm proud of you. Incredibly Blake: tedious. So, but yeah, yeah, it's, it's been really fun about Raven: being a team. Yeah, is, is he gets to do half the hard stuff. I get to do the other half of the hard stuff. So no one's to carry in the brunt of misery. Oh, Don Bishop: yeah. So my wife helps me as a mostly as a sounding board. Um, Raven: nice, Don Bishop: but we have, we have. You know, kids. So how old is your oldest kid? So Raven: our oldest is five and the youngest is ten months. So, it's crazy. Yeah, I can imagine Blake: there's going to be some chaos. Oh yeah. Um, and fortunately Raven is able to bring order to that chaos. quite a bit, um, because we work together in a really good way. Like, we've had times where we've tried a couple of different ways of writing together. Like, we've had times where we had me writing a chapter and then her writing a chapter and trading off like that with different character perspectives, but we found that that was like a little bit too different. Yeah, Raven: it was too jarring between the different writing styles and so we've had to figure out how to blend it together. And that usually means writing, I'll write the scenes that I feel confident in my skills as writing, and then he'll fill in the gaps that I leave, and then I'll edit his stuff, he'll edit my stuff, and then we'll just go back and forth until it's cohesive. Blake: Yeah, and what we do is some very extensive outlining, where we will have, like, we'll walk through everything together, and if we ever have disagreements on what a character should do at a certain point, we'll kinda just leave it there. As a possibility, right? We Raven: actually did have three different endings for the series. Pretty much plotted out chapter by chapter. And we didn't, we couldn't agree on which one to do. We, we eventually eliminated option C. And then we were kind of at war for a few months about whether it was going to be option A or option B that won out in the end. Blake: And it is pretty it kind of combined Raven: them both actually. Yeah, but Blake: what's been cool is I think that that's helped our characters feel more alive. Because there, there really is the possibility that they could change. And so, we leave it to the characters to decide by the time we get there. And we've had it resolved every single time. When we get to any point of where we were disagreeing, we're like, Okay, yep, nope, the momentum is pushing towards this direction or the other, right? And Raven: Exactly. Yeah. Yep. So, um, honestly, that's been kind of the biggest struggle is getting the kids to be quiet in the back of the car so we can be up front outlining. Don Bishop: Yeah, Raven: we outline a lot. So Don Bishop: you drive. Okay, they're asleep. Let's talk now. Raven: Exactly. Exactly. The nap time like we get that baby down and it's like, go, go, go. We've got very short window here. Get the three year old. Let's get the three year old watching Bluey and let's go. Blake: We should have started writing books before we had kids. But we didn't know. We didn't Raven: know what we wanted to do until suddenly there's a kid and we can't. Because Blake: we were doing the screenwriting stuff Raven: before Blake: and then it kind of landed right in tandem with COVID stuff. And we were like, Oh, now. Let's Raven: get serious about that book we've been talking about. Yeah, because Blake: it's going to be infinitely harder for us to go through and produce. our dreams of screenwriting stuff. Like now there's all of these hurdles being put into place for being able to make a production actually happen. And it just bottlenecked even harder on who's going to be able to get theirs produced. Raven: Exactly. And we were actually going to jump right into acting more so at the beginning of COVID. We had a house lined up in LA. We were going to move there. We were going to make it happen. But then literally Blake: two weeks before the shutdown. Raven: Two weeks before the shutdown, we had a house lined up and then the shutdowns happened and we couldn't move to LA. And so we were like, Hmm, we're kind of stuck here. Let's do some writing. Blake: Yeah, so we used a lot of Brandon Sanderson's courses on YouTube to help us figure out how to transition the good story development sort of stuff we had learned in college and transition that onto the page rather than just writing scripts, writing things more like a movie. And so I think, or more like a novel. And so I think that that's translated into our books being. Um, and there's a lot of readers who seem to like that, but there's been a few, there's been a Raven: couple who's like, and it's too fast. And I'm like, great. They're like, it's like Blake: reading a movie. And that's a bad thing. And I'm like, that Raven: sounds Blake: awesome to me. Yeah. I mean, you, you, Don Bishop: you might not want. Sorry, I don't know how to talk. I don't, I don't words. You might not be thinking, Hmm, I really want to be trapped in this book. But when you pick up a book, And it just pulls you in, That's an enjoyable experience. Raven: Exactly. Yeah. It's been fun. Don Bishop: It's not like, um, people, You, you don't really finish a book like that and then, and then complain, like, Oh, that was awful. Raven (funny voice): Exactly. Except Blake: for that one guy, our one, our first one star review that actually gave us a rating. I think it's still our only one, um, said Raven: the only one who actually wrote anything. Yeah. Yeah, it Blake: was one star and he said Raven: it was titled. The review was titled. These authors haven't grown up. And then the review said the perfect read for middle school hoodlums. It was great. Blake: And I was like, you Raven: could Blake: make that a five star rating and say the exact same words. The Raven: authors haven't grown up. The perfect read for middle school hoodlums, 100 percent could go either way. But this guy was mad about it. He did not like Intro Music: it. Raven: That's okay. It's gotten a lot more people to give it a chance though, so honestly, I'm grateful for that guy. And the best part is, he went and bought the second book and read that one and left another one star review about how juvenile it was. I was like, guy, come on, you're clearly into it. He had to know. Don Bishop: You pulled him so hard through the first book, he had to go through the second book. Raven: Oh, and that's the other thing about our series. Let's just to explain really quick. So book one follows Asher here You hold him and then book two follows a different character named Malaya Because we wanted to kind of get the guy's perspective the girl perspective and then the third book they come together And every other chapter they trade off. So, it was a risky move, like our editor after reading through the second book, he's like, it is so risky of you to take this cast from book one that we love and have gotten super into, and then push them kinda to the side with only a few overlaps for book two, with a whole new cast, and he's like, but it worked. It paid off, and 100 percent it makes sense. And then book three, it just makes that all the sweeter when they finally, like, clash. Blake: Mhm. Don Bishop: Do Blake: you Don Bishop: ever Blake: read Animorphs? I read a little bit of Animorphs. Um, but man, I am rusty. I know who Tobias is. And I know what an Andalite is. You're Raven (funny voice): rusty on Animorphs. Don Bishop: Yeah, of course. You made me think of it with the characters switching off. Of course, with those most books, it was one character point of view for the entire book. Next book was a different character. Next book was a different character. I think at the end of the series, They switched off, um, Oh, cool. Raven: That's cool. There you go. Yeah. It's a fun format. It makes it kind of ramp up a little bit. There's going to be actually one more book in the Skystone Chronicles that's coming out this year, 2025. Blake: And speaking of animorphs, Dragon, the main character's dragon in book one has kind of a scythe tail like an antelope. There we go. But he can launch it and regrow it. It's super fun. Raven: I don't know what that word means, but all the Animorphs people are going to know what I'm Don Bishop: talking about. Uh, yeah. And then the launch and regrow, that's, um, X Men. There's a character. I think they call him Spike. Yeah, yeah, Blake: yeah, Don Bishop: yeah. Raven (funny voice): That checks out. Don Bishop: Yeah, Blake: it's a similar, similar sort of power that this dragon Don Bishop: has. So it's uh, Andalite. Spike x man thing. Yeah. Are Blake and Raven making funny voices: you intrigued? Don Bishop: Okay. Well, um, yeah. What other questions was I thinking of? You guys have a high energy. Blake and Raven making funny voices: No, it's Don Bishop: fine. Blake and Raven making funny voices: I guess Don Bishop: that's probably what comes across on the page. Raven: It's very, very fun. Yeah. And another fun fact, we read our own audio book too, because we were voice actors trained in college. So we were like, let's make this happen. We read our own audio book. And, uh, so the fun part is, is he does all the male voices. I do all the female voices. So, you know, Blake: all the way throughout, not just on perspective chapters, you never have to listen to me. Blake and Raven making funny voices: Start talking really high like this and take me seriously as a woman. With a good love interest. Yeah, no, and you don't have to hear me do that. So it's for the Raven (funny voice): best. Don Bishop: Okay. Yeah. I'm, I'm actually, I'm listening to wind and truth right now. Um, Raven (funny voice): so I'm like Don Bishop: five and Uh, it sounds like, um, sounds like Kate Reading might have, I don't know, might have been sick or something between book four and book five. Her voice sounds a little different, but, Intro Music: but yeah, I, I, Don Bishop: I hear what you're saying. Like when, when she does that, but they do it, they do a good job and I don't really think about. Raven: They do great. My readers do awesome. And I think it's awesome. I just, I think, I think it's really hard sometimes to focus on like, I hate it when guys will do like a, a girl voice and they're trying to be like this beautiful love interest and they're like, Raven (funny voice): no, this is how a girl talks and I sound really tired. Um, nope, it's hard for me to take it seriously. Blake: And, and we just figured. Since we have both of us, Raven: and Blake: we're used to directing one another, um, I think it's made our performances in our audio book better too, because we'll be in the same room at the same time reading through the book. It's also helped us catch errors. And Raven: then playing off of the energy, because then it's just more of an acting experience because we're in the same room together having dialogue back and forth. And it just, the energy flows a lot better, I think, if we were to do it by ourselves. So, Don Bishop: yeah. And then, um, um, I, sorry, going back and remembering something. I wanted to ask, uh, can you show us, maybe you can't show us, but can you tell us about, uh, your illustrating process? Like I, I, I saw on Instagram, you were using some cool tools. Blake: Yeah. Where, where she did the breakdown and procreate that showed kind of a movie of the process. Raven: Yeah. So, uh, the app I use, we'll just export one of those videos. I've been meaning to, Oh no, it's. Blake: It's dead, let's Raven: just plug it in real quick. Blake: Yeah, we'll give it, we'll talk about something else for a couple minutes Don Bishop: and then it'll be back online. It'll Raven: be Don Bishop: back. You can just set it to record everything you do, right? And then Raven: So it just automatically records, um, everything that it That it does and stuff. It just takes the data. There's like a little export video option. You can export the 30 second version or the full version. For the video I posted on Instagram, it was, I exported the full version and then just took some highlights because it was forever long. Because it's, I spent a long time in that picture. Blake: Yeah, there's an art. To editing those videos down to the parts that are important for people to see. Exactly. Raven: Exactly. So, let's see. I don't even know what to pull up here. Do we have any spoilers? I've got a lot of, I do, I do fan art of our story sometimes and I don't want to, I don't want to pull up a spoiler on accident. Oh, Blake: try one of the, how about that? Raven: This is the one I put on Instagram already. Do you want to Blake: do the other variant? Raven: No, it's not ready. Blake: It's Raven: not ready! Oh, it's trying. It's still warming up. Blake: So, uh, something fun. I worked in advertising for a couple years right out of college and so that has enabled us to kind of pivot that. Knowledge that I learned at the advertising agency. I was at, um, into marketing our books. And fortunately I have access to an incredible artist who's able to make variations of our ads to make things more interesting. Let us test which one's working better for people. Um, and that is part of what we. are, have been doing. We'll have Raven and I will try to think which one's going to catch people's attention better. And then we'll almost kind of compete on which one is going to be better and which one we like better and which one we think everyone else is going to like better. And that has led to some really cool stuff. Raven: Yeah, it's a fun time. Okay, so I don't know how well we're going to be able to see this, but, So here's the picture that I posted the process video on the old Instagram. So yeah, we've just got, we've got all these layers here that are all the different things that I've tried. A lot of layers that are turned off because I failed and didn't look good, but Yeah. Blake and Raven making funny voices: Whoa! Blake: How's this? Raven: Eh. Blake: Better? Raven: A little bit. Anyway. There's some Blake: good ring light, actually. So yeah, I draw everything Raven: on Procreate. There's probably more professional ways to do it, but who cares as long as it looks good in the end, right? Don Bishop: Yeah. Yeah. The, I really envied the video because I, I don't have software that will do that for me currently. Oh yeah. Raven: It's so nice. It's so nice. I mean, Don Bishop: maybe I could. I just need to do some research and see. Raven: Yeah. Blake and Raven making funny voices: Cool. Blake: Yeah. I. Uh, I think that, that was part of what drew us to the iPad was, uh, Procreate's ability to like, just do so many interesting things. Oh Raven: yeah. Blake: Like, uh, and the Apple Pencil was just super good. The Apple Pencil Raven: is the best one. I like the way it's pressure sensitive. I tried Microsoft stuff and it just wasn't working for me. I've seen other people succeed greatly with it. But for me, the Apple pencil is the best thing. And then I love being able to airdrop, uh, the picture straight from my iPad to my laptop without losing as much quality as if I were to send it through anything. So it's been good for me. I have, Blake: do you do some of your, I have a, Don Bishop: a, a drawing monitor, um, That's me. Um, and, and, you know, pen input for it, but that's a, a relatively inexpensive thing. And the, the nub of the pen isn't terribly, Oh, you can't. Yeah. It's not terribly fine. Like if I want to get really detailed, it's kind of limited. I also have a laptop, um, with a live live pen compatible. Um, so I got a live pen for it and it's pretty good, but, uh, I haven't, um, I haven't dug into like what software to, to use to really unleash, Blake: to unlock. Intro Music: Yeah. I Blake: bet you could screen record something as you were drawing it, but it would be harder to edit together then. What procreates, but yeah, well, and I can Don Bishop: screen record already. I, I, um, I'm using OBS studio right now. I mentioned that I use, I'm using my phone as my webcam. Uh, I'm using Samsung, Samsung decks to show the, the phone's camera output. And then I'm using OBS studio to grab from Samsung decks to grab whatever that's showing and boom, there's my webcam. Uh, so I can screen record, but it might just, it might be ungainly. Like it, it's going to grab, um, like these. Pixels over here that aren't doing anything and, and it's going to, uh, beautifully record those away. And I, I don't need those. I, I, something made for it would be better where it's going to record, Oh, you did this stroke of the pen. We're going to record that. Okay. There's nothing new happening over here. Raven: Yeah, just automatically does it. I'll have like, cause I opened that picture probably like, you know, a hundred different times over the course of a week or whatever. Yeah. Don Bishop: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Wow. I hadn't even thought like, I was thinking like, so you're working, you're working like, Oh, got to go do something. And you, you walk away and you come back and you continue working for the recording. Nothing happened. You didn't walk away. But you're saying like multiple sessions, like Raven: exactly that time and Don Bishop: you come back in the morning. And you pick up and the recording that it produces, uh, there's no, it's just all seamless. Yeah, that's Blake: great. Raven: It's very nice. Blake: It's especially helpful in these, the era of AI, right? Raven: Oh yeah. Blake: Where we're able to be like, Raven: look, it's a real artist and here's the proof. Don Bishop: We literally did this. Raven: Yeah. Don Bishop: Yeah. Well, and I, I do stuff with. Um, are you familiar with GIMP? Yeah, GIMP's fun. So I, I recently produced, um, page overlays for Kickstarter backers. I ran a Kickstarter for my first book last year. Oh, cool! And these page overlays were a pain. And I, I tried printing them at home. I did some printing at home. Um, sometimes it was successful and sometimes, as you can see, uh, so this, you know, this is transparent, I'm going to put a piece of paper, you can see those lines, uh, that was annoying, um, now I, my Kickstarter backers knew this ahead of time, knew that I was going to lean on AI for this, uh, but you can't just go in and get a nicely tailored scene. Uh, by saying here's the scene, this is what's going on. This is what it looks like now. Spit it out. Intro Music: Yeah, Don Bishop: it doesn't, it doesn't like this image right here. Um, is like four or five separate. AI generated images, maybe seven, uh, layered and pieced together and then modified. So let me, um, I'm going to open up one of these files. I have so many folders on my computer. Um, Raven (funny voice): I feel that Blake: all the stuff. We get that Don Bishop: again. Blake: While you're looking that up, Raven also made, I saw the t shirts and everything. Yeah. Oh, Raven: so have, maybe you've Blake: seen Don Bishop: my, um, uh, Grendhill media logo. Oh yeah. It's the, the triangle, triangle with the Blake and Raven making funny voices: rounded Don Bishop: ends. And, uh, there's the rose in the middle, but the, Intro Music: apart from Don Bishop: the rose and the. The triangle with its different parts. I did that at Microsoft word. Nice. Because I Raven (funny voice): would not have guessed. Don Bishop: Gimp does bitmap. And so everything is going to, is either going to be. alias or anti alias, um, um, or it's going to like show heavy pixels and you can do vector graphics in Microsoft Word. Um, Intro Music: actually no, the rows, Don Bishop: the rows I drew in Microsoft Word as well. Uh, Oh, that is so funny. It Raven: reminds me of back in the old days, like in junior high, I would spend like hours on Microsoft paint back in the day, just drawing stuff. It was so bad, but you know, it's all training in the end. It's how you got good, right? Woo, that is funny. Don Bishop: Okay, I'm in the folder. Here is That Blake: file now, let me uh, and that's cool that you're making so many of your own art assets. I didn't realize that Raven: that is cool I didn't know that either. Don Bishop: Yeah, I hired the book covers and That was it Raven: For sure, we pretty much do everything by ourselves except for editing we definitely hired an editor our editors a genius Hey, look at Don Bishop: here. Here we are And I have to okay. So this is And also it's modified, you know, um, cause the colors weren't right. And I had, I drew the, the mist around cause it was foggy in this scene. Um, there's the main character and she's looking at this. Um, there's the unicorn back there. His name is Ron. Um, but that, that was its own image. And then there's this boulder, which is actually a chunk of the mountain that I rotated. And, uh, Blake and Raven making funny voices: yeah, Don Bishop: that, that wasn't its own AI generated image. It was part of the mountain. Um, and I just manipulated it. This group of bad guys is actually two groups of bad guys, and they're at the wrong angle. If you look at like, yeah, they're definitely leaning. This guy's like floating, maybe. Uh, it's small. You can't see that. Um, yeah. Unless you're zoomed in on the original software that produced it. Um, but yeah, there was, there's one group of bad guys, another group of bad guys, um, that I put in there and. I had to put the mist in front of them, and then that, that bit of slope wasn't there, but I needed something for them to be walking on. Blake: So that the character could be in the foreground, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Blake and Raven making funny voices: yeah, looks pretty dang cohesive. The whole background was not Don Bishop: a single thing either. So this, this was something, and this was something, and this is a copy of that. Oh, nice. Raven: There you go. Blake: Yeah, uh, Raven: Well, from what I can see, you brought it together pretty well. Blake: Well, thanks. Raven: Nice. Don Bishop: But, uh, Cool. Yeah. I do some fiddling with images. Um, I haven't done a ton of my own drawing yet, but I do as necessary to, uh, Intro Music: to Don Bishop: generate these things. And this, this was, um, you know, another overlay that didn't really turn out while I was trying to. Get the printer settings to work in the end. Uh, the ones that I sent to my backers were printed at Staples. Um, that one is a pain to print on. Blake and Raven making funny voices: Oh wow. Blake: I've never, never tried that, is it? Blake and Raven making funny voices: Hey, Don Bishop: that's cool. Okay. I guess that's enough show and tell for right now. It's fun. Yeah, it's good stuff. Um, yeah, great, great chat. A little aimless, but that's fine. It Raven: was fun. I love talking about books. It's my favorite thing. Dragons and Don Bishop: draconic people. And, um. Formatting books and illustrating and screenwriting. Of course, uh, at Halloween, you say that you studied screenwriting, right? Blake and Raven making funny voices: Hey, there you go. Don Bishop: That's good. All right. Missed opportunities. Well, um, I would like to invite you to, uh, create a character, uh, if you would like to include in future Nightshade Unicorn books. I don't promise to use this character much, and I reserve the right to modify as necessary to fit the character into my world, um, but, and I won't promise that it'll appear more than once. And that one might just be in passing, you know, like look, yeah, and down at the, at the end of the alley, there was this guy and then they continued on, you know, it'll just be like that, but maybe more. If you'd like to create a character, uh, I'll, I'll include this character. You can make up a name or a physical description or personality or all of the above. Blake and Raven making funny voices: Awesome. Don Bishop: That'll be cool. Blake and Raven making funny voices: Yeah. Don Bishop: We have to Blake and Raven making funny voices: do it right now? Don Bishop: Sorry if I was unclear, that, that was my, uh, thinking. Oh. Okay. Okay. Let's do Raven: this. Oh boy. Okay. Okay. Blake: I want to roll dice for this. I know. I feel like I have to get a character sheet right here. Go ahead. Where's my? I Raven: think they're all in the bedroom where the baby's sleeping. Um, let me see Don Bishop: if I might have Um, well, I can, uh, I can roll dice for you on the Raven: computer. Let's use our own brains. We'll use our brains. We'll be creative. Blake: Oh, yeah, yeah. We can do that. Yeah. Um, let's see. So. Raven: Okay. How about How Blake: many sides does this die have? Who knows? Raven: I don't know. It might be too freeing for me. Let's just think of it. Yeah, we'll just think of it. Okay. Blake: Okay. Raven: Let's make it an old lady. Blake: I was thinking the same. Raven (funny voice): Okay, your turn. What's next? Blake: Hunched. Raven (funny voice): A hunched old lady. Like Baba Blake: Yaga looking like, with a, like a shawl over her hair. Okay. She Raven: has a thick, thick accent. And she, she has a little, a little basket full of something. What does she have what's in the basket? Blake: Turnips. Raven: Turnips. Blake: Yeah. Raven: She's selling turnips. Yep. Blake: She is a turnip seller. She's very, Raven: very cute and very nice. She's like the grandma that everyone wishes they had, but she's a crazy old turnip lady. Blake: Okay. Okay. Raven: You want to name her? Blake: Let's go with. What kind of, like, languages do you draw from like, Raven (funny voice): are yours Blake: more in the Nordic vibe, the Germanic, what? Raven (funny voice): Well, Don Bishop: I, I don't know, it's, I haven't been terribly clear, and I've, I've, I've, so far I've not, I have not left the same country. Um, I've left a region, uh, so like, where, where Alava comes from, uh, the food is described, and it's, it's pretty, uh, Western European or, or American ish, uh, at this one feast. And then she travels, uh, to this other place. It's still within the empire. Um, but in this new place, they eat a lot more pasta and a lot more seafood. Um, and then she's, she just left that place. So. Okay. Now, like, possibilities are open once again. Okay. Okay. So. Raven: Well, we said she has that thick accent, so she could be from somewhere. Blake: Far away. Raven: Far away. Maybe. I'm feeling Blake: Eastern European on this lady. Okay, Raven: okay. Maybe it's just Blake: the Baba Yaga vibes of being a little lady. Um. Raven: Well, we could just name her Baba or Bobby. Bobby is cute. B A B I. Unless you change it because you do what you want. I don't know. What do you think? Intro Music: Should it Raven: be Bobby the old lady? The old turnip lady who is very friendly and likes to sell turnips to a random stranger? Blake: Uh huh. Or, uh, maybe something like Mnushka. Blake and Raven making funny voices: Mnushka. Mnushka. Mnushka. Blake: Mnushka. Blake and Raven making funny voices: Yeah. Blake: M, Blake and Raven making funny voices: M, M, Granny M. Her name can be Granny M. For Blake: short, because the nushka is hard to say. The Blake and Raven making funny voices: nushka is hard to say. Gr, okay. Granny Mnushka, but you call me Granny M. Blake: Alright. Blake and Raven making funny voices: Take what you want from that. Blake: All right. Yeah. She's seen unicorns though. Don Bishop: Oh, Blake and Raven making funny voices: she's seen. Yes. Don Bishop: Uh, actually that's not terribly uncommon in this world. Most people have seen a unicorn at some point. Oh, cool. Blake: Ooh, I'm going to have to, we'll have to pick Don Bishop: them up. Everybody's seen a unicorn. Everybody knows like they're, they're nice. They're, they're gentle. They're, um, they're all white and they're all females. So like these, this. Nightshade Unicorn story, obviously false, right? We made him the prologue of the first book, so he does exist. Oh, nice. But, uh. Blake: Nice. That's so Raven: cool, dude. That's super fun. And what age, age range is your book targeted towards? Uh, it's, Don Bishop: it's YA. Nice. My first reader was 12 when she read it last year. My daughter. Blake and Raven making funny voices: Oh, nice. Oh, Don Bishop: that's so good, dude. Blake and Raven making funny voices: I love it. That's so fun. Blake: That's cool. And you said you had three as well? Uh, three kids, yeah. Yeah, and oldest was 12. Yeah, she's 13 now, Don Bishop: and the youngest is five. Oh nice, Blake: you're kind of out of the woods there now. Raven (funny voice): I know, I'm excited for my youngest to be five. Yeah, Blake: out of the baby woods and into a whole new kind of forest. New forest, Intro Music: yes. That's awesome dude. Don Bishop: Well, uh, stick around after I hit stop on the recording, but uh, Thanks for Intro Music: joining Don Bishop: us and we'll catch you next time on the Grand Home Chronicles podcast.